Gean has this peculiar sort of introspected low-key style of chewing his thoughts, a kind of baroque provocation, at times tangential and often ending with a swift
touché. Last night, I had a good time observing his interaction with the class. I perceived the whole gamut: some of you were irritated (or put off) by his delivery, interested but puzzled, totally disconected, and then some were able to score really the best points I've heard in a while. I don't know why, but the exchange stayed with me all night. Let's talk about it. Tell me what you think.
22 comments:
He was not convincing to me. He doesn’t give me a good reason for defending pop art. He gave me the impression that he doesn’t’t believe in what he was saying. In my opinion an artist has to follow more what he likes, not what gives him/her more money, but if you have to do it for the money, you should be honest to say it.
Heidi
gean's presentation was uncomfortalbe for the most part for many reasons.
first, i'd like to say that i liked the video--sorta. i'm glad it had really bad editing--that made it more interesting...even though i've never seen that movie.
i thought his presentation would be more engaging. we started off well with the whole pop culture theme, but then it just dragged and dragged pointlessly. only two of us actually participated in this discussion with gean about pop culture, which ended up as a big ball of confusion.
the most interesting part of the discussion for me was the comparison of latin american artists and how american goods have invaded latin america (although other parts of the world as well) [probably because i'm also a latin american studies major...].
some parts of the discussion were actually interesting, but it was just at the start of a new topic. for example, the whole specialization topic. like i said last night, i grew up thinking that as an artist, you should also be good at other disciplines, not just within the visual arts, but other areas too.
just in the 19th? the 1800's, many artists, not just visual artists, were interdisciplinary as well. many held diplomatic positions within and outside of their respective countries. and yet, they were referred to as a writer or artist and not a diplomat. that's just an example.
back to gean's presentation, the silence made it really uncomfortable. i felt like he wasn't clear in the questions that he asked. i was partially interested, confused, unintereted, and just annoyed--not to mention really, really tired.
i guess i didn't get the point at all....who cares about pop culture. why does one have to worry about it or not?
i feel like gean was out to contradict any person who was consciously against pop culture.
ugh! that's just my gut reaction; now let me be more constructive:
1) As to the specialization issue, if he is going to promote the concept of a single artist working in a variety of media, he needs to give some examples of where this has been well done--in a short lecture that may be hard, but I would think presenting at least two artists would be possible. By give examples, I mean show the work in the various forms; if writing is involved, pass out copies of the articles, excerpts from the novels, etc...and of course, show the visual and/or replay the audio media as well. Let us experience some examples that counter the assumption that doing this will spread the artist too thin.
2) I think there is a difference between merely expressing the same idea in various media, and really developing some quality in each. His example of the "ice cream social" project was an example of the former (and not a real good one at that, since we had only his vague verbal description of it). I am not convinced that merely spinning off a novel, a screenplay, etc., from a performance piece is really an example of acheivement accross specializations.
3) I am surprised no one picked up on the one-sidedness of his comments about US influence on Latin American culture. It has surely been working the other way around as well for some time now. I am generally of the opinion that Latin American pop culture is a of a higher aesthetic quality than the US; at least in music I find it to be so, even in rock. (I've been to two La Ley concerts in the last year, but would not bother with the N. American "equivalent").
4) His general presentation was so hypnotic (in the old sense of sleep inducing) that not even the consumption of one of those mega-caffiene energy drinks could keep me aware enough to express the obvious idea that was hovering on the edge of my consciousness the entire time-that pop art is not equivalent to pop culture, nor should even be considered a moderately accurate expression of it. Although it surely takes elements from it, does it not become something different and inhabit a different world altogether? The way this process works, the mutations these elements undergo, etc. would be a good area for some concrete discussion. 5) I think someone like this really sets himself up for a nearly hostile reaction when the presentation is poor or indistinct in focus. After all, he has basically started out by claiming to be a jack of all trades in various modes of communication; so he runs expectations up in advance.
In conclusion, there were a lot of potential issues of relevance and interest there, but none developed.
Gean is an acquired taste. I think there're aspects in art-talking that can be explored that way. He performed a bit his part of being himself and engaged the class the best he could. I've seen him talk to an audience just the same. It's not for everybody. But even eliciting those feelings you refer to, Ana, make sense if the points were pondered. It's just a thought
AT: i am completely out of it.
I thought that your introduction of him as being "someone who could really speak to young people" was a little off after he got to talking... I found my self terribly dissapointed when he never really talked about his work. I actually enjoyed his essay, it was well written, engaging, and somthing different. His metaphor of soap scum to trying to write something, is how i often feel when i try to create (be it art or writing.) I was really excited to see some of his art work or read more of his writing, and then .... pop culture. We eat, sleep, breath, pop culture and then he wants us to define it. I felt like the discussion was loose, didnt seem to me like anyone was really that interested and thank god for the two people who were because if they didnt say anything than who knows... we could have been in silence for an hour. i did however like how he brought up the other writing (about the nazi/kkk guy) and how artists should leave their little hill top and work in the culture, but i almost feel like that should be reversed. (BTW i am very new to the whole art "thing" so if you think im totally off then thats probably why) art is observation and interpetation of cuture... how is it that not interaction enough?
Ana, Heidi, Sierra and Dominic: You've made very good points. All I'm saying is that sometimes, things don't go as we plan (myself included when I call people to come to our class). Say, what if I considered Gean's delivery as a metaphor for a truncated performance, something that could've been but wasn't? And why? I mean, some of Plato's dialogues (the paragon of discursive argumentative presentation) are disturbingly vague and inconclusive. Who is right? Who won the argument? Was it right or wrong? Was it successful? Even at that level, (I claim)there's something we can take with us. And again, my point goes beyond the obvious --and very reasonable-- evaluation you guys have made. My point goes to artmaking: pondering personal, subjective connections, difficult and intimate psychological issues. (To be continued)
i definitely have to say that gean's presentation was not what i was expecting. the video was interesting, but i still feel that the editing was some sort of attempt to be "postmodern" or edgy that fell short. i don't know if anyone has ever seen any film by matt chambers (a former student here) but he edited some of his films a lot more successfully than this artist did. what's the point of leaving one or two frames blank in between or just cutting from the scene a second late. why not make a couple seconds of the footage slightly rotated. or add scratches or increase the grain of the film. make it certain that you're watching a film that was purposefully edited in that way. to just take footage and edit it the way this artist did, i just can't help but feel that he was lazy in his attempt to create a film with a statement. i think the concept of having really bad editing is fine, but if you're going to do it, do it better. this editing was just bad, bad editing.
i liked the subjects that gean brought up, because it was like going into a lion's den with every topic. whenever a speaker brings up topics that he has studied for a while or work with long-term, it's very dangerous to express your own opinion about those topics. chances are, the speaker has spent a lot more time thinking about the answers to certain questions than you when you have about one minute. i appreciated the discussion even though i, too, felt very uncomfortable with a lot of it. but i think a lot of discomfort came from my uncertainness and lack of preparation to the questions that he was posing. i disagree with him about the invasion of our culture into latin america and the lack of latin american culture into u.s. culture. for god's sake, we live in miami. a place where it's a little hard to find a job without being bilingual. i come from a town in central florida that has a 35% hispanic population. maybe middle america doesn't have this type of influence, but a lot of america does. new york, la, san diego, new orleans, and a lot of others cities have a thriving culture that is heavily influenced by other countries and cultures. maybe we don't have as many imported goods from latin america as latin america has from us, but we sure have a lot of latin american influence in our everyday lives. spanish was become a language that a lot of people have a least studied, mexican and cuban food can be found is just about every city in florida. a lot of latin american pop musicians that have made it big in their own country have been able to establish success in the u.s., too (salina, ricky martin, shakira).
i disagree with josh on the u.s. influence in latin america vs the latin american influence in the u.s.
the extent to which the united states has influenced latin america surpasses the influence that latin america has inside the united states by a LOT. it doesn't even begin to compare. sure, big cities have lots of latin american influence, but it's not significant when the entire country isn't influenced by it as opposed to latin america where you have a plural number of countries being influenced by the unites states in almost an entirety! the significance of imported goods is so important because these imported goods can lead to a change in lifestyle for example, i.e. to an american lifestyle--the most obvious: fast foods. another example, josh mentions the success of latin american pop singers, then again, a lot of latin american singers and musicians (there are exceptions!) are often influenced by american singers and musicians and not the other way around.
i don't think anything really influences the united states the way that the united states influence other countries, not just the latin american region.
influence from latin america seem to be more as a result of population dynamics, not influence being promoted by latin american countries.
About the influence of cultures. Remember parts of United States where conquered by Spaniards and they brought their culture to both Latin America and USA.
In the beginning of the XX Century (20's, 30's and 40"s) Latin American culture was like "something exotic" for the north americans and the United State culture was "something to imitate."
I think after 1960's when cubans first and then people from other contries came to the United States was when everithing got melted together and a third one was created.
Heidi
Wow! Everyone is pretty intense here so hopefully I'll be able to stick with something a little more simple. I do agree that I expected a whole lot more from Gean's presentation and he fell short and the whole discussion on pop-culture and pop-art was very uncomfortable and confusing but I'll give him credit in that he did pose very interesting questions and feel that this was our most intriguing talk with a guest artist yet because he seemed to provoke everyone in some way or another. I just felt like there was this tension going and everyone has so much to say but kind of didn't know how. I, for example, was trying to figure out if he was genuinely trying to pose a question out of interest for what we have learned in school or if he was just trying to annoy us by asking something he felt he already knew the answer to and just wanted to see what half-ass answers we came up. It was confusing as to his intension but very intriguing in his delivery of them. But, I don't know, it was all a little wierd.
Yeah, it has been intense.
I am continually amazed that individuals, who would no doubt defend the right of the artist to express him/herself as each individual one desires, will still insist that there is some universal "duty" of the artist to society. The motivation for producing art should no more be dictated that the content or style of what is produced. Let the individual decide if they want to remain on their hilltop or not; and to either interpret/comment on contemporary culture, or just to create something sensual, without this externally imposed requirement of a so-called higher purpose (which invariably means something collective.)
As to my comment on cross-cultural influences between Latin America and the US, I think the point is not so much to quantify in what direction it was greater, but rather to point out that it is an oversimplification to just speak of it in one direction only.
I was mainly bummed becuase i read the postcards essay and was very intrigued. i thought his descriptions were wonderful and the essay delightful. Then the class was totally uninteresting. The video was dumb in my opinion because it wasnt his work...and it was nothing of good quality. i feel like anyone could edit a section out of a movie. where is the creativity in that? i was expecting much more from him... he says that he is talented in many forms of art and that is what intrests him..how come he had nothing to show for it? He may be a good drawer, writer, painter, and the master of all areas of art...but i dont think he should test out being an art teacher. He shot down any comment someone said!
i did not make a comment or ask a question in the class simply becuase i did not feel educated enough in art history to comment to his questions. i think the situation was ackward for us all becuase his presentaion was a 360 compared to every other artist who has visited....But i am not sure what his intention was...to come in and discuss pop culture but then disagree with comments made becuase his pwn opinion seemed already firm and decided.
ana, i guess our experiences abroad have been different.
Amanda: Don't feel that way at all. In our class, no comment (if it's sincere) will ever be a bad --or an ignorant-- comment. We're learning from one another.
Gean's presentation was puzzling at best. I understand how he feels about pop culture and what not, but i really didnt' get ANY sense of himself and what he does personally as an artist besides the fact that he writes for certain magazines and what not. I dont understand why he brought another artist's work to a presentation that i feel should have been about himself. After sparring with him for a good 45 mins, I did come to the conclusion that he may come off as very self absorbed becuase he countered much of what i had to say with a certain air of annoyance. He did, on the other hand, engage me to think. I agree with ana in that i felt that the conversation was very uncomfortable because it was very circumlocutory and made little or no progress. I also enjoyed what gean had to say about the latin american cultures and how american goods are invading their society, becuase in all respects it is probably happening all over the world. But on the whole, i really didnt enjoy the whole conversation.
I found Geans' presentation weak. I was expecting to hear more about his work, his ideas, statements, and arguments, but he did not seem interested in this, but in posting questions which I founf unclear. I think that a good speaker has to be clear, should listen to the questions, respond to the reactions, adjust and adapt.
I agree with him on his idea that artists should engage in multiple fields because art gives us the opportunity to mix different things such as photography, painting, drawing, and design and they complement each other, giving us an advantage for opening more doors.
I wasn’t excited at all by that video that he showed. Plus it wasn’t even his work, so we weren’t actually hearing it from the artist, which was difficult. The discussion on Pop art just got too deep and kept going in circles, which a lot of art discussions end up doing. He just didn’t keep my interest. I really would have liked to see some of his work.
I think that gean's idea that artist should be open minded multitasker tring to insert himself in soceity (ie pop culture) is not so significant. most of what i've beeen taught at school is to be as opened minded as possible.
Hello,
I am trying to get a hold of Maritza Molina. I am an FIU student and would like to include her in a project I am working on. Please contact me.
NZamo002@fiu.edu
Thank you.
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